The Tucker Carlson Show

00:00 Chame-me Shannon Maldonado, sou a fundadora da Yaoi, uma loja de souvenirs com artigos artesanais e peças selecionadas por artistas. Escolhi a Shopify porque depois de experimentar outras plataformas, esta foi sem dúvida uma das mais intuitivas. Para mim, foi importante pensar onde estaríamos no futuro. Todas as ferramentas para analisar as vendas, como a gestão de inventário, estão ali mesmo, no nosso dashboard. Comece a sua avaliação gratuita em shopify.com. 00:33 Thanks a lot for doing this. How long were you at CIA? 00:37 I joined the CIA in 2013. I was in the State Department before that, private sector. I served as 2nd Ranger Battalion before that. 00:44 2nd Ranger Battalion, State Department, CIA. When did you leave CIA? 00:48 I retired on 30 June, so real recently. 00:51 Month ago? Yep. Last year you became a whistleblower. 00:58 It was before last year, but yes. I think it started long before last year and it had to do with vaccine mandates, which is a separate topic from COVID origins, but yes. 01:10 You first came to my attention anyway, and thank you for fighting vaccine mandates, one of the most evil things this country's ever done. 01:18 But COVID origins, you went very public, you testified in the Congress. Why did you decide to do that? 01:25 Well, there's a subpoena. That helps make a decision process. 01:28 Okay. 01:29 So, no, but in all honesty, I came forward and I had done a transcribed interview for six hours and 40 minutes behind closed doors with the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee. 01:42 When it looked like that the CIA was obstructing our investigation, when it looked like... 01:50 Every obstacle was being put in place. When the subpoena came, frankly, I was happy to go. I was happy to speak publicly. 01:59 Mas então você become... Eu acho que você é em uma categoria diferente quando você faz isso, eu acho. É uma grande decisão, não é? É, é. 02:07 Você sabe, eu tenho que dizer isso, mas eu tenho que dizer isso, mas eu tinha que dizer isso com a Covid-19, com a Covid-19, e, frankly, você sabe, talvez vamos ter tínhado isso mais antes, mas a história que veio publicamente, na May 13, em fronte de Senador Rand Paul's committee, I had passed that story to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in April of 2024. I had also given it to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, two oversight bodies, in 2023. 02:40 And the first time I came and spoke to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on COVID origins was actually in November of 2021. Now, the story was a little different then, but I came forward multiple times trying to Let them know that we're being lied to. 02:59 Então, os dois committees, você pronuncia, eu menino, você põe o seu nome, mas só o House e Senado Intel Committees, o Oversight Committees. Oversight Committees. Oversight Committees. Oversight Committees. Oversight Committees. Oversight Committees. Oversight Committees. Oversight Committees. This is the legislative branch's oversight of the most powerful, arguably the most powerful agencies in the government, which have very little civilian control, particularly CIA. I think there are only, what, three appointees at CIA? 03:18 I believe three appointees, which is, in my opinion, not enough. 03:22 Oh, that's totally crazy, because it means whoever's elected by the public doesn't have any control over this agency. O que eu acho que é provável. Mas, enfim, o controle é suposto que vem do Congresso em forma de esses dois committees. 03:37 Então, quando você dizem que algo realmente roto está acontecendo em CIA, onde você trabalha, você expecte que eles vão fazer algo sobre isso. 03:44 Eu fiz, e eu acho... Covid opened my eyes. Eu era naífe. Eu era... 03:50 I was an operations officer. So I spent most of my time out in the field collecting intelligence, recruiting spies. That was my job. I was not an analyst. I was not collecting other people's intelligence and turning it into finished intelligence. And I was a bit naive about the process. 04:07 You were doing the traditional work. When people hear the term CIA, they think of what you were doing for a living. Yes. Which is not what most people there do. 04:15 Correct, correct. You know, the Directorate of Operations conducts the operations for the agency. We collect the intelligence. And this is why this whole mess... Like living in foreign countries? Correct. You know, I was gifted many things from the agency. I was gifted Mandarin language training, Arabic language training. I could use some brush up on Arabic, but my Mandarin is still pretty good. Um, you know, and they, they give us a lot of authority to live and work overseas. I love the job. I love the job. 04:45 And despite everything that's happened, I actually still think if you're a, uh, motivated, uh, critical thinker, you, you should try and get into the director of operations. 04:57 It is a fun job. It's a good job. I tried to get in for that exact reason. Probably never should have admitted that because I've been accused of being a tool of CIA ever since, which I'm not. Um, Eu acho que esse interview vai ser claro que eu não. Mas por isso, eu acho que era uma coisa muito interessante, muito interessante. 05:12 Você não pensa sobre a política. Não tem política. Não tem política. Não tem política em campo. É um... É um... É um... É um... É um... É um... É um... É um... 05:37 It was a blessing and a gift. Everything good in my life was touched by working at the CIA, which is why COVID woke me up to sort of a mess. I mean, we're supposed to be, and people laugh when I say that. 05:47 So you're not living in McLean, Virginia, near our headquarter. You're like abroad, right, for a lot of this time? 05:53 Most of my career, yeah, it was abroad. It was abroad. And I loved it. I finally came back to headquarters in 2019, right before COVID hit. And... 06:07 Being a CIA case officer, ou even any intelligence officer, your job, and people are going to laugh especially when you say CIA, our job is truth. So we go out, we go into this sea of misinformation, lies, different types of motives, and we're supposed to pull out that little tiny nugget of truth, write it up, and present it to policymakers so that they can make wise decisions in the most altruistic way. That is what we're supposed to do. And what COVID revealed was most of us don't... Most of the agency, they lost their sense of discernment. 06:44 They gave up on taking a hard look at what was happening all around them. And I could not believe... I mean, I was running... 06:56 Work on financial intelligence against strategic rivals. And I had an office. I was running two big branches. 07:04 And I had like seven people who'd come to my office every day and like, we're not crazy. We're not crazy. This masking, this thing where they want to test us all the time, like this shot. We're not crazy. This doesn't seem right. 07:19 Um, and that was, that's what started me down the road. Um, there was a few other things before that. It was, you know, a few other things before that that, uh, opened my eyes, but, um, I'm also a slow learner. I mean, I spent some time in the Middle East looking at dumpster fires saying, well, you know, I know we didn't actually get this done, but thank God we're here for democracy. So, I mean, I, I, I own that. You believe that? I did. I did for a long time. I, I no longer, um, I think that we probably should take a good hard look, um, at the decisions we're making on foreign policy. 07:51 And I think that whole thing about no new foreign wars was probably a good idea. 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Todas as ferramentas para analisar as vendas, como a gestão de inventário, estão ali mesmo, no nosso dashboard. Comece a sua avaliação gratuita em shopify.com. 10:31 So, you come out in this, let's just start with your testimony before Rand Paul's committee about COVID origins. So just point in point, where did COVID come from, do you believe? 10:45 It was a lab incident. It was a lab incident in Wuhan. 10:49 And it spread from, it was already, the cat was already out of the bag. I think if I, you know, people look at my public testimony, I'm convinced that que a inteligência comunitária poderia ter feito um testamento em mid-2020, que há uma chance que isso fosse uma variedade de lab incidente que ocorre que causou essa pandemia. 11:16 E um lab incidente muda como a gente vê public health, public health policy. Então, se é um incidente natural, I have a feeling, you know, if Americans, and I said this during the testimony, if Americans knew that the basis for the vaccines, for example, came from a nucleotide sequence that was given to us by the Chinese government, E nós colocamos isso, colocamos em um computador e disseram, aqui é a vacina. E eles disseram, mas não você disse que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu que saiu Sim, sim. 12:25 A lot of previous work done on COVID. Sorry, on coronavirus research, I should be precise on that. 12:34 There's all sorts of coronaviruses that we've been looking at over the years. 12:37 There was a famous outbreak, of course, in Asia. 12:42 So do you believe, so you believe that the virus just escaped from the lab, the famous lab in Wuhan. Do you think it was an accident? 12:52 I think that we need more data from the CIA to actually fill out what Director Gabbard was doing. But yes, I think that it escaped from a lab in Wuhan and it spread everywhere. 13:07 Inadvertently. 13:08 Inadvertently, I think. I think. There's no direct evidence right now that says, yes, they did it deliberately. 13:17 Um, that, well, that's quite a hedged answer. There's no direct evidence right now that they did it deliberately. So, the possibility exists. 13:24 Possibility exists because, um, I mean, I'd love to give you a direct answer. Right. But the CIA would have had to have given the information that was requested from Director Gabbard's Directors Initiatives Group. That probably could have cleared everything up. We, we... Quando eu conducto uma investigação, ou seja, uma inteligência operação, se eu estou indo para um target, a primeira coisa que eu faço é fazer um timeline, ok? Um timeline de eventos, conhecimentos sobre o target que eu estou investigando. Se eu não tiver tudo que vai naquela timeline, eu não posso te dar uma resposta. 13:58 E, bom, a CIA simplesmente refused para oferecer o informação. 14:02 E foi obvious early in the outbreak that this was from the lab. I mean, there were Chinese researchers who said it. And then subsequently, as you know, it disappeared. 14:14 But people were saying this from February of 2020. Yeah. And it always seemed likely to me. 14:22 But the U.S. government from the very beginning went along with this pangolin lie. 14:27 Yeah. And then subsequent to that, even when it became obvious that it was a lie... O que você está dizendo? Continuando o cover-up. Por quê? 14:37 Bom, parte da razão... Eu sou parte da razão. E, você sabe, eu vou ser muito blunt sobre isso, e desde... 14:46 Eu vou ser blunt e também vou dar minha opinião. Você sabe, quando eu estava sentindo em fronte da senhora, eu queria que eu estava muito acurado em tudo que eu disse. Eu não quero dar uma suposição, mas eu vou dar uma suposição aqui também. Porque, você sabe, eu tenho um brain, eu acho. Você sabe, eu tenho synapses que fire off. E, ocasião, quando eu vejo data, eu não... Você sabe, se eu vejo... Quaca como um duck. Então... 15:13 I think Anthony Fauci was fully aware that the funding that had gone on for various types of dangerous research, dangerous gain-of-function research, had been going on for a very long time, okay? 15:26 Different viruses, different bacteria. 15:29 And, you know, there are, I see connections to, for good reasons as well, biodefense, I see connections to research that goes on. 15:39 Mas eu acho que eles entendem que a House de Cards era iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria iria I take a look at some of the scientists that the IC relies on for expert advice. These people are really, really impressive people, okay? You know, they... 16:11 They receive funding to go do research. They're involved in health. They're involved in biodefense. All of a sudden, you've got a virus that looks, boy, sure, there's a couple ties that tie the financing over to Wuhan, China. 16:29 He had to know. He had to know what that looks like at the end of the day. So instead, based on everything that's out there, he gets the proximal origins of SARS-CoV-2 written with his buddies. That paper gets waved around the IC as the end-all, be-all, as the paper to prove that, yes, it's of zoonotic origin. And he had to know when he's pushing these type of experts, a variety of experts that he pushed towards the IC, Once in February of 2020 and again in June of 2021, he pushes those experts in. 17:06 He wants to ensure that narrative is pushed at the IC level. And unfortunately, I'm going back to the comment I made before, you know, some people just appeared to swallow like hook, line and sinker. There was actually, I read an email where a very senior person and I said, I wish I could name names, but a very senior person basically waved that paper around and said, well, we've got our answer. 17:33 That was somebody who was in a position to sort of influence, not sort of, in a position to influence how the IC looked at SARS-CoV-2. Why are they covering it up now? Fauci's gone, new administration... 17:48 I think that there's an embarrassment piece, again. I think, you know, you don't want to be caught with your pants down. 17:55 I think that... You don't want to be caught. At all. Covering up from a global pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands of people. 18:01 Yeah. So there's... I think... I think... Hold on. Let me be very clear about who doesn't want to be caught with their pants down causing a global pandemic. 18:14 Very... The senior people within... 18:18 a part of the DNI that's responsible for looking into WMD matters and bioweapons matters, and the Weapons and Counterproliferation Center over at the CIA. There's very senior people over there that had a heavy hand in what happened. And it's not the analyst, like the technical analysts that were pushing, saying, hey, listen, guys, this looks like this is a lab leak. Their careers were destroyed for pushing it. This is the story that I really want to make sure gets out. 18:50 I want to correct the record. 18:52 They were not bribed. There was a number of analysts inside the CIA, and they did everything in their power, to include writing a little dissent email that went all the way up to the top of WCPMC, saying, hey, listen, guys, we're technical experts, and I'm paraphrasing, obviously. We have this much expertise, and it looks like a lab leak. 19:16 Their careers were destroyed after that. They weren't no longer part of that establishment. 19:21 And if there's ever... So the entire leadership of CIA swung behind this lie that it was from an animal. 19:29 Yeah. And why are they still doing it? Well, because... Well, I'll tell you what. When the CIA produces the documents that were requested... To help finish the investigation, I think we'll have a better answer on why. 19:43 But how can CIA get away with not producing those documents or documents from the Kennedy assassination 63 years ago, which they also haven't produced, as you know? 19:52 Who allows that to happen? 19:55 Oh, that's a packed question. There's a few pieces to that. So senior managers allow it to happen inside the CIA. And oversight, to some extent, lets it, well, oversight has failed clearly over the years. I'm not criticizing, right now I just want to be clear, I think actually Rick Crawford is on it right now. 20:15 I'm definitely criticizing. He'd be the member of Congress who oversees the House Intel Committee. Yes, yes. 20:21 So, historically, they've abdicated their role in oversight. 20:26 Let me give you an example. I want to give you a very clear example. When I was a young officer, you know, não a young officer, mas, you know, I had earned my stripes, done my work, and I was going to do my first meeting with a liaison service. Now, most of the time, it's like, good luck, buddy. Yeah, have fun. I actually had a senior officer pull me aside. 20:47 He said, listen, here's how... Liaison service would be a foreign intel. Foreign intel service. 20:50 So this is where you get declared to the foreign intel service. You're no longer hiding from everybody. 20:55 And you're working together on goals that you both care about. Hopefully. 21:01 And he said, listen, this isn't going to go well. Here's how this is going to happen. Here's what I need you to do. He did what rarely happens for CIA ops officers. He trained the junior officer on how to handle the meeting. I was so grateful. 21:14 Years later, and I love the guy, years later, he disagrees with me, by the way, on just about everything of substance, but he's a great officer. 21:24 And... 21:26 He pulls me aside. I had gotten a job where I was interacting with oversight on a very regular basis. My job was to ensure that the things that were coming from the CIA that were going over to oversight were truthful, honest. We were producing things that was valuable for them to actually do their job. So I'd never really done that kind of work. I'd dealt with oversight before. He says, here's how oversight works. Take, for example, we are supposed to report all of the Organizations that have human rights abuses that we work with. 22:03 I mean, the CIA works with bad people. That happens. It's by statute we're allowed to do that. But we have to report it. We have to make sure that they know. So we give them a list. And I don't know if it's quarterly or every other year or whatever it is, but there's a report that comes out. And he said, if... He was explaining to me. Let's say somebody on the other side of the table says, hey, this service here, I don't like this. I don't want you working with this service. 22:28 Um, so he says, how do you handle that? I'm like, I don't know, you tell me. He goes, you say, well, just tell us to stop. And the meaning is, we know that you can tell us to stop, but you got to get everybody else to tell you to stop. And if we keep doing it, you got to get everybody else to pull the purse strings. And that never happens. So, like, you should just tell us to stop doing it then. It's become a kabuki dance, in my opinion. A kabuki dance. I sat in an oversight meeting that was three years after a huge failure happened. 23:03 And they're asking the people sitting on the other side. The other people are talking to the agency officers. They're like, has anyone been held accountable for something that happened three years prior? 23:14 And the agency lawyer leans in and says, we're holding the system accountable. So, unless... How are we doing that? I... 23:28 Eu não... Eu não... Bom, se eles estão holding o sistema accountable, eles precisam de trabalho, porque o sistema continua chugging. O sistema não é uma pessoa, certo? Right, right, right. 23:40 Eating right é muito importante, mas é difícil se você morar aqui. Há parte da América da dieta é ultra-processed alimentos, e isso é difícil. Fake food harms your body, your mind, and especially your liver. So people think that feeling sluggish and foggy and bloated is just what it is to be older, but that's not true. Eating crap makes you feel that way. Well, our friends at Dose have a solution. . . . . 24:24 People we know use dose for your liver and they have seen rapid results in their blood work and they feel much, much better. The difference is very obvious. 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Sissy maintains oversight responsibility. 27:29 Sissy's the Senate Intelligence Committee. 27:30 Sorry, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. We maintain primacy on oversight for these sort of matters. And so, hey, Pulte, make sure, make sure that you consult us before you decide to give anything over to them. Okay, and not only that, I said that I had done a 6-hour and 40-minute transcribed interview in a skiff in March of this year for Hisgak. Republicans and Democrats were both there. Well, let me clarify that. The Democrat tried to leave, but I insisted that he stay. 28:02 Now, I finished that transcribed interview. 28:05 They won't give it back... 28:07 They won't give it back to Hisgak. Hisgak is the... Sorry, the Homeland Security Government Affairs Committee, the one that Rand Paul's on and Ron Johnson's on. I think some of the Democrats around there, Fetterman and a few others, wouldn't know. They didn't show up to the hearing. So, you know, Sissy's saying you can't have your own transcribed interview. Sissi's saying, we are the ones who have primacy over oversight over the Intel community, but they're not doing oversight. 28:40 And how do I know they're not doing oversight? I've already sort of mentioned it. 28:44 I went to Sissi in April of 2024, and I told them a story about six of seven technical experts saying COVID origins, you know, COVID originated... E eles não fizeram nada com isso em 2024. Então, claro, Tom Cotton não quer alguém mais digging into isso, porque ele provavelmente exposes o erro da sua oversight. 29:04 Tom Cotton é tão claramente um tool da CIA. Oh, sim. 29:07 As far as eu posso dizer, ele é lá para fazer que ele proteja a CIA. 29:14 Mas que é o opposite do que o job entende. Que é exatamente o opposite, sim. Agora, seu wife trabalhou com a CIA, ele é um analista em Langley. Eu não sei, mas eu acredito. E que é correcto. Eu falei com ela sobre isso. Então, eu não me lembro, mas ela é muito bem. Eu não me lembro, mas eu não me lembro. Eu não me lembro, mas eu não me lembro. Mas que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, que é um, 29:40 É tipo de como Fauci having his wife in charge of bioethics. That's an interesting little relationship. 29:46 Again, I'm not accusing Mrs. Cotton of anything. She's a nice person, and I think she's left CIA. But the point is, that's weird. And then Cotton's reflexive defense of CIA against everybody, including the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, is very, very striking. And his impulse always is to hide more from the public That isn't what we voted for. I'm very aware of that. And you have to... And of course, he's a very weird guy. 30:16 I don't know him. 30:17 Let me just say again, he's a very weird guy. And almost everybody I know on those committees, I know a bunch of members, I mean, Dan Crenshaw was on the House Intel Committee. So it's like... O que é o que está acontecendo aqui? Parece que a C.I.A. é provavelmente o que está fazendo isso, controla esses pessoas. 30:37 Como eles fazem isso? Você sabe, eu tenho que dizer isso, mas nós temos conquistado uma oportunidade histórica. E Director Radcliffe e Deputy Director Michael Ellis, eu acho que quando history looks back, eles vão dizer que eles eram a pior liderança que a CIA poderia ter. E não é porque... É porque o que eles não estão fazendo. Eles têm oportunidade de reformar, mas eles mantêm todos os mesmos que foram envolvidos com Covid, covering up Havana Syndrome, they're all sitting in senior positions. 31:12 Why would Trump, so Radcliffe has been in contact with John Brennan, right? 31:18 And I've heard that, do you believe that's true? I believe that's true. Right. So Brennan is a sworn enemy of Trump. So why would you ever in a million years, and Trump has said a million times, I hate John Radcliffe, stripped him of his security clearance. Why would you put a guy he's in contact with in charge of CIA? Like what the hell is that? 31:38 I don't know. I don't know, but what I hear... Do you think that's weird? I think it's very weird. 31:42 It's very weird. 31:43 It's very weird, and there's other data points that I think speak to this. 31:48 John Radcliffe, take the Trump-Russia collusion documents that Director Gabbard released in, was it late July 2025? 31:56 So those documents were damning. I mean, it's treason what they were trying to do. And I read the unredacted documents. I read the documents. This is our story. We're sticking to it. Okay? You can't unread that and then go away thinking, boy, good thing we've got great leadership at the IC. So that's all real. The thing is, Director Radcliffe was Director D&I. He had possession of the documents that were released by Director Gabbard when he was over at the D&I. 32:27 Right. He could have released them. He could have released them when he was at D&I. Maybe he was scared. 32:33 I mean, I could... But Trump, that was... He ran D&I in the first Trump term. So... 32:44 Trump knew this. Everyone knew that. That John Radcliffe is also, by the way, loyal to a foreign power, I would say. And he's in touch with Trump's enemies. And he's doing nothing to help Trump on the issues that Trump claims he cares about most. And then the first thing Trump does when he gets elected... Is it point that guy director of central intelligence? Like, what the hell are we looking at? 33:08 Yeah, I can't get into President Trump's head on that one. 33:12 But what I can do is... Can you just affirm again my suspicion this is like the weirdest thing that's ever happened? 33:17 Yeah, this is dumb. It's flat out dumb. Like, if you want to be followed, like, he's proven... President Trump has proven that there are people within the federal government that will go to great lengths to destroy people. Yes. Including him. Especially him. If you want to continue to be destroyed, this is exactly what you do. Exactly. So, it's dumb. Well, dumb at best. 33:41 It sounds like a decision made under duress to me. I don't know why any person would do that, especially with someone with... ...fine-honed self-preservation instincts, which Trump has. Why would you do that? 33:52 And I also noticed something else. Tell me if you have, too. That of all the appointees, high-level cabinet secretaries, big appointees in this administration, Radcliffe has basically received no scrutiny in the press at all. 34:03 Yeah, neither did Rubio, for the most part. Sorry. Sorry, I wanted to add. Fair. Fair. Thank you. But did you notice that? Of course I noticed it. You're a CI director. You're one of the most powerful people in the world. It's a giant red flag. It's a giant red flag to me. I'm sorry. You got to have... If you're coming into one of those positions, I want... It doesn't matter who's in charge. I expect controversy. I want an argument over it. I want to see people get mad about the person that's going... But to this day, most people have no idea who the director of national intelligence is. 34:35 Right. And he's treated like a head of state when he travels abroad. He runs CIA. We don't know what their budget is. I mean, it's an incredibly powerful agency, as you know better than I. So, and this guy, no one says a word about him. So that tells me that the American media... or at the very least beholden to, if not controlled by CIA. Like, where are they? Where's CNN? Where's the New York Times on this? Where's the Washington Post? 34:59 Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the media because the media plays a huge role at this point in... 35:07 American freedom, our future. Take a look at the media blackout, even on... I'll personalize it here. On May 13th, you would have thought every news outlet would want to hear what was happening behind the scenes during COVID. Fox News was the only one that covered it. And that happens all the time. It tells me that the media is controlled. The media is controlled by the government. This thing where we've got an independent media, it doesn't exist, okay? And that's a big problem for government oversight. 35:39 It's a big problem because whistleblowers who go through the system... Sorry, I'm going to pivot just a little here. But whistleblowers are essential to... 35:52 a system accountable, but... To honest government. To honest government. So, I can tell you, I've personally walked through the system and it's so broken that... 36:03 Agora, quando as pessoas me dizem, eu falo, eu falo, não. E eu falo, eu falo, a única coisa que você deveria ser um whistleblower é se você estiver preparado para perder tudo. Porque você não vai ter uma golda star quando você está terminando. Não vai fazer isso bom para você, não vai fazer isso bom para você, não vai fazer isso bom para você, não vai fazer isso bom para você, e se você, por exemplo, go through o IC sistema, They continue to investigate themselves and find no wrongdoing. If you go to the ICIG, I went to the ICIG and I tried to get them to... Intelligence in the Inspector General. 36:38 Thank you, I apologize. No, no, it's all right. The internal watchdog. Yeah, the internal watchdog. And Chris Fox, by the way, I think is another one I should mention specifically. I think he's got the spine to try and get something done to clean things up. And I said that in my testimony. But let's say you go through the whole system and you realize, oh my gosh, the system is broken. What do I do now? 37:01 Well, that last line of defense, the last line of defense for a free society is a free media. 37:07 And let's say you want to, you're like, you know what? This is wrong. I have to do something. 37:13 And you say, I'm going to go to the media. Well, that is, that's Russian roulette. And by the way, let me be perfectly clear. I am not advocating that people with classified information go immediately to the media and just start spouting their mouth off. That is not what I'm saying. No, they should just dump it on the internet. 37:31 That's what I think. Put it on the blockchain? Just want to be clear. 37:33 Okay. 37:34 I am advocating for that. Okay. And I do think that people with relevant classified information should disclose it to the public. 37:39 They should. They should. But I don't blame any of them for not. The system is broken. 37:45 Christians ought to be safe in the Holy Land of all places, but they are not. 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It's not just straight documents. It also provides a contextual sort of real feel of, not sort of, a real feel of what was happening at the time from a real person. 40:15 And so... 40:16 Do you have any idea why this is the case? Which is to say, do you have any clue how CIA influences the behavior of the Washington Post, the New York Times, CNN, NBC News, the Associated Press, etc.? 40:33 My limited window, because like I said, I'm an ops officer. Up until recently, all I cared about was stealing secrets. 40:41 Right, in some foreign country. 40:42 Yeah. Yes, to be clear, not American Secrets. 40:45 I want to ask you about that in a minute. 40:48 Okay. 40:50 My limited window is There's clearly some preferred outlets that they will go to. I mean, I see some of these things, and these are puff pieces. These are cheerleading pieces. Talking about how great things are. Talking about all the things, all the reform. I've seen a few recently. 41:09 The problem with CIA, I've long thought this, is it doesn't get enough money. E então, o Congresso precisa apropriar mais dinheiro. 41:16 Cada piece é assim. No, certo. Se só eles tinham full funding. O que? O que é um ótimo ponto. Não só de eles não conseguiram enough funding. O que é interessante que você menciona, porque é também... Sorry, isso pode ser um non sequitur, mas eu acho que é importante. Parto da razão que nós falamos, É o Patriot Act e 9-11. Eu fui parto da whole system post-9-11. 41:48 Eu posso te dizer que eu nunca tinha a time, mesmo durante continuando a resolução, onde se eu went para a boss e disse, Ei, boss, eu tenho um grande operação e eu preciso mais dinheiro. Eles sempre acharam dinheiro para mim. E eu acho que... 42:03 Eu acho que nós começamos a confundir bom managers para bom líderes. Então, depois de 9-11, a Patriot Act abriu um monte de autoridades, um monte de operações que foram abriu. E, você sabe, o bom managers são os que puder juggle um zilion de diferentes coisas em vez. Você sabe, eu wish eu era uma dessas pessoas. Eu não era muito bom em juggling um zilion de coisas em vez. Você sabe, eu stucko a handful de coisas que eu sabia que eu pudesse. Mas o bom managers, eles poderiam. E eles estavam trabalhando em um momento em que era um monte de dinheiro. 42:34 Nós sempre tínhamos dinheiro. Nós sempre tínhamos dinheiro. E então, os meus managers, que não tinham realmente ter testado sobre, hey, devemos fazer isso, devemos fazer isso, devemos fazer isso, devemos fazer isso, devemos fazer isso, devemos fazer essa decisão de blá, blá, blá, blá, blá. Eles ficam confusados como líderes, então eles matriculados. 42:53 E eles não eram realmente, e isso é uma generalização, eles não eram realmente testados em termos de moral decisões, ou decisões que eram em termos de, como, devemos continuar fazendo essa operação ou não. Então, você sabe, e nós tínhamos chances de ser testados. Como muitos falaram durante a whole Enhanced Interrogation piece? Como muitos falaram e disseram, hey, last I checked, é tortura. Well, one did. One did and he was destroyed, right? 43:23 He went to prison. He went to prison. Under the subsequent administration, which was the amazing part. That's crazy. So he came forward during Bush, but Obama got there and John Brennan immediately saw that he was indicted and sent to prison and wrecked his life. 43:37 So all these managers who have continued to be moved up, they've never had to make a hard moral decision. COVID hits. And you got people saying, hey, I've got religious rights. Hey, I've got bodily rights. Hey, this is executive overreach. 43:51 No one knew how to handle that, and it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt. The management, they're not leaders, the managers in the CIA are not trained to handle conscientious dissent and real moral decisions. For me, that was it. They failed, tested their humanity, and... 44:15 That opened my eyes. No one asks this question very often, but where does CIA's funding come from? Well, it comes from the Congress in part, but that's not the entirety of its funding. 44:30 Period. But the part that is appropriated is classified. So we don't know exactly what the budget is. 44:37 How can you... And I'm pretty sure the president doesn't know. In fact, I'm pretty certain the president doesn't know. So, like, how is that civilian control of an agency if no one really knows how much money there is or even where it's coming from? 44:51 It's not. You know, and there's... 44:54 There are reasons why they want to hide budget. 45:00 I really believe in sources and methods. We don't want to see sources dead. We don't want to see sensitive methods destroyed. But, you know, if the naming conventions for the various offices at the CIA are made so indistinct that outsiders can't understand what they do in that office... 45:23 Bom, que é meant para proteger a tipo de operação. Isso é o método. Mas há uma questão sobre a pesquisa. Como faz a pesquisa acontecer se você não pode fazer? O que exatamente faz isso? O que faz isso fazer? O que faz isso fazer? O que faz isso fazer? O que faz isso fazer? O que faz isso fazer? O que faz isso fazer? O que faz isso fazer? 45:44 And you also have to ask, like, is CIA doing anything that's so critical to the interests of the United States that you would give up any hope of managing it or having oversight over it that you would allow it to be its own country in the middle of your country? 45:58 The answer is that shouldn't occur. Period. I mean, morally, ethically, no. Is it occurring? I worry it is. 46:05 Oh, it's definitely occurring. There's no question about it. 46:08 I mean, from my experience, it sure looks like it. 46:12 Yeah, it sure does. And again, if we don't even really know, there's a big debate, which I've listened to carefully, about where this money is coming from. And again, it's not all coming from the Congress. So, what? 46:28 Follow the money. 46:29 How can you? If CIA is running businesses or engaged in business practices as an agency, which it is, It's like, I get that this can all be justified. 46:40 If I were king for a day, if I were in charge and I wanted to start the process, I totally get it. It's become such a gargantuan problem. Where do you even start? 46:50 Right. 46:50 But if I wanted to make immediate gains... On that question, how do we... I would... So the director of CIA, the deputy director of CIA, and it used to be the chief operating officer, they've changed names. They have special authorities to grant no-bid contracts under national security auspices. 47:11 I would come in and I would start auditing every single one of those contracts that were given out by the director and deputy director, particularly in that little window between administrations. Once you catch a little bit of wrongdoing, it makes it a lot easier to justify, okay, now we're going to start doing the deep dive. Why don't we take a look at the other funding mechanisms that are in play for various types of intelligence work? I would definitely audit In-Q-Tel. 100%. In-Q-Tel needs to have a full audit. 47:45 Can you explain for people who don't know what In-Q-Tel is? In-Q-Tel is, you know, it's the venture capital arm that funds all sorts of stuff. 47:53 Venture capital arm of what? 47:56 Of the CIA. 47:57 Okay. I mean, I know the answer, but I just want to make sure that everyone listening understands that CIA has its own, and I'm quoting you, venture capital arm. 48:05 Yeah. 48:06 So we thought that something had happened on like Sand Hill Road in, you know, Northern California, but no, CIA has its own venture firm. Yeah. Yeah. 48:13 I mean, you know, there's real reason to have an insight into things that are tech and things that are about it. I get it. There are. There's good reason to have it. Mas se você vai fazer isso, você deve ser capaz de justificar cada penny. 48:33 Well, and you have to have control over it by the public through its representatives. So what happened in Pakistan, as you know, I don't know if you've been posted in Pakistan, but like Pakistan did this with its military. And the next thing you know, the military runs Pakistan. 48:48 And no matter who you vote for, the military still runs Pakistan. 48:51 So you don't want that because that's the opposite of democracy, right? I spent two years in Pakistan. Okay, then I didn't even know that. 48:57 But is that a fair assessment? Yeah, yeah, it's a fair assessment. I mean, how many businesses does the Pakistani military own? 49:03 A lot. A lot. A lot. A lot. Right. And they're the best-funded institution in the country. It's really obvious when you drive around Pakistan. It's like all the mowed lawns are the military bases. 49:12 Yep. 49:13 Yep. 49:13 Well, having life insurance is one of those things that helps you sleep better at night. If something were to happen to you, what exactly would happen to your loved ones? Your children? We've heard so many stories of families losing a parent and having their life insurance policy save their financial lives. That's the whole point of it. 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What they want... my opinion, is we were told that we were going to get some IC reform and we haven't seen one lick of it. Except, sorry, that's not true. Except with Director Gabbert. She did exactly what President Trump said. I want you to downsize the DNI. I want you to pursue de-weaponization of intelligence. I want you to pursue COVID origins. I want you to pursue Havana Syndrome and election security. 50:46 She did all those things. She tried to pursue those things and she got beat up for it. 50:50 I want to get to that in some detail in just a second. But first, I just want to go back to John Ratcliffe, former congressman. 50:59 que runes CIA. Por que ele não conseguiu a reforma da CIA? 51:08 É uma questão muito difícil, porque eu não estou em sua circle, mas como eu posso dizer, é porque ele não quer que. Ele é perfectly feliz para que a gente que estão trabalhando, os managers que matricularam upwards, que foram confusados por bom líderes, eles estão trabalhando o lugar. 51:26 Eu não sei por que ele está fazendo isso acontecer. 51:29 Everybody I know in that world says that he's just a pure mouthpiece from Assad. Everybody says that about John Radcliffe. 51:36 I don't know about that. I can't speak to that, but what I will say is he's not getting it done. He's not reforming anything. I mean, there's still, and I don't remember what they're called, and I'm not even sure I'm allowed to say what they were, but... Um, you know, right before the administration changed, the DA came up with three new ways to write products that only stay inside the CIA. They don't get propagated out. So what good is that? And so the CIA continues to create products that, um, have no oversight and, um, can be held on to, especially if they're writing things up that... 52:11 Can you explain what a product is? You're not talking about a new kind of toothpaste. 52:14 Right, no. So analysts will write a paper, Finished Intelligence, on some topic. And there's different types of papers. They've got different names. But there's a new type of... E aí My gut tells me they're just going to hang on to them until they can make them go somewhere, maybe the next administration. 52:56 Who knows? 52:56 Right. I mean, you're describing the ability to create dossiers on people. 53:02 Dossias and all sorts of stuff. 53:04 So here's the reform that I would institute if I had the power to do it. The President of the United States asks for information that is held by one of his agencies that he oversees because he's one of only two elected officials in the entire executive branch of government. 53:19 And the CA does not produce that information. And then that's the point in which you call John Radcliffe and you say, listen, bitch, Você tem 24 horas para fazer isso, ou eu tenho que Cache Patel ter você arrestado. Mas não é nada disso. É como o presidente's proxies ask for information from CIA, e eles estão assim, nós não conseguimos encontrar isso. Quando todo mundo sabe que é uma lei. Election security. 53:40 Aqui é um bom um. Kurt Olson é o cara. 53:42 Mas, mas, por que que você pode fazer isso? 53:43 Você pode, em theory. 53:46 What do you mean in theory? 53:47 This is the president's agency. He was elected by the public to run CIA. I'm missing something. Sorry, you are 100% right. Trump treats CIA like it's a foreign power that he has to negotiate with. 53:59 I can't understand why. It's the craziest thing I've ever seen. It should work like that, but it's not. It's not working like that. Frankly, Director Gabbard shouldn't have to negotiate with... director Radcliffe over some of this stuff. She had people in her team that have all the background to handle the type of products that were coming out of CIA. Operational traffic, those sort of things, and had to negotiate. 54:30 Everybody's got to negotiate. Why do we have to negotiate? Why would President Trump... But where's the president in this? 54:35 The president issues an executive order January 23rd saying, I want all available documentation on these number of historical incidents, including the assassinations of the 60s, but not limited to those. 54:48 He doesn't get it. 54:49 He does not. And, you know... So why doesn't Trump say... 54:53 Okay, it's been a month. I want it by this afternoon. Where is it? Or you're under arrest. I just don't... I don't... 55:00 What is going on? I wish I knew. I wish I knew because we expected... We... 55:08 We, and I, you know, when I say we, I mean the American public voted for the greatest disruptor in American history. It's not hard, is it? But he's not, for some reason, he's not being the greatest finisher, in my opinion. He's a colluder with the system. I don't, I don't get it. I don't. 55:25 I don't understand, because we really want to see him successful. So how hard is it to get, and I'm just going to pick the most benign of them all, and that was Kennedy's murders, because it's so old, right? But it's not possible you're revealing sources and methods. Everyone's dead. I don't really see the legitimate impediment to producing these documents after all these years and all these votes by the Congress to do it, multiple executive orders, including this one. So they don't produce those documents, which they have not. 55:53 They have not. 55:55 Por isso é difícil para Trump só dizer, time é up, eu quero ele agora. 56:01 Tem uma série de lawyers que convictam e dizem, aqui é tudo isso, aqui é tudo isso, aqui é tudo isso, aqui é tudo isso, aqui é tudo isso, aqui é tudo, Trump tem o poder de fazer isso, mas... Ele faz, correcto. Ele pode fazer isso, mas... Ele pode fazer isso, ele pode fazer isso, mas por algum motivo, os bureaucrats, eles todos se sentem around convictsing over todos os legais, eu acho. 56:23 E Tom Cotton, too. Tom Cotton, too. Does not want disclosure. Does not want disclosure. At this point, if we're serious about reform, we just got to lay it all out and let it... If the documents that come out, these operational records come out and they show... 56:41 E aí E, um, um, there's no reason, there is absolutely no reason to, to not just put that out. 57:12 Okay. I think those documents that are JFK, which, um, there was no daring daylight raid or anything like that. That, that just, that was incorrect. Um, DNI was locked out of a, of getting those access to those documents. And some of those documents, um, They're going to use bureaucratic doublespeak to talk about why DNI doesn't need certain documents, why some of these documents probably need to stay behind closed doors. It's all bullpucky. 57:44 It's too old. It's too long ago. 57:46 It has to be released. There's an executive order with the force of law requiring the release of these documents with no caveats in it. Yeah. So, they're breaking the law by holding these. 57:58 You could say the same thing with the COVID Act of 2023. That was unanimously passed. Said, we want all of it disclosed. Was it? No. No, there's thousands of documents that are still sitting there. And I pray that Pulte or whoever else comes after him, or even Ratcliffe, I don't care who does it, declassify him. There's thousands of documents. 58:18 Well, that's of course not going to happen. 58:19 And I'm sure Tom Cotton would jump up and prevent it. E é muito ruim, porque o povo que colocou essa administração em office vai olhar para isso, e eles não vão ser feliz. Bom, não é uma democracia se você não sabe o que o governo está fazendo. 58:41 E o que sobre 9-11? Foi there ever um effort para... Porque, como você já disse, foi o PATRIOT Act, em busca de 9-11, que mudou a estrutura, mudou a país forever. 58:52 There's never been a meaningful push to declassify after 25 years. 58:56 You know, I can't... There was no push for 9-11 during my time at the dig to declassify anything. 59:07 Oh, I'm very aware of that. 59:08 I wonder why. I have my theories. What are your theories? That there's something that's... 59:16 You know, all these people who are out there that say, you know, the government can't keep a secret. And, you know, you're a kook if you think that, you know, there's a possibility there was something, some underhanded thing happening behind the curtain. I can tell you we can keep a secret. I know. I've kept secrets. I am keeping secrets, okay? Morally, ethically, I'm keeping secrets. Um, and if somebody says that a group of people can't keep a secret about 9-11, that's not true, okay? 59:51 I have questions about Building 7. That, for me, was a wake-up call, and... That's where the CI office was. Yeah, and so I have a real, real question about Building 7. It does not make sense, and this is, and again... 60:05 I used to be a normal CIA officer. You know, I... That's such a great sentence. 60:11 I used to be a normal CIA officer. It's true. Assuming that's a category. 60:15 You know, it is a category. 60:17 I'm just joking. I know it's a category. 60:18 You know, I... And I still... I still love the agency. 60:25 But there's something... There's something off with Building 7 and... Something off? Yeah, like how did it fall down? Yeah. 60:36 Why was it announced on television before it fell down? Yeah, those are real questions that need real answers. So, because there was a CIA office in that building, they admitted it. I didn't misremember that. No, you didn't. Did anyone ever talk about this? You mean... At CIA. 60:54 At CIA, over the course of my career. 60:56 Yeah, like what happened to our office in Building 7? The building that no plane hit, but somehow it fell down. 61:01 So when I say I used to be a normal CIA officer, for most of my career, no one I knew talked about that. Right. And it wasn't until COVID that I started running into people... 61:12 Whatever this means, it wasn't until COVID that I started running into people that started asking those questions. And I was listening to them going... First, I had a... CIA employees? Yeah, CIA employees. I had a visceral reaction when I first heard that. I was like, what are you talking about? I did exactly that. What are you talking about? They can't... That didn't happen. 61:30 And as time has gone on... I had the same reaction, by the way. You know, I'm a slow learner. Me too. I'm a slow learner. And... I'm a slow learner... 61:39 But there's a lot of questions that need... So what were other CIA employees who had thought about this before you did or I did? What was their theory about how that building came down? 61:50 Ah, well, put me on the spot here, but... Doesn't mean it's true and you're not endorsing it. 61:55 I'm not endorsing it. I'm interested to know what actual CIA employees think about the destruction of the CIA office in Building 7. 62:01 A lot of people had questions about, you know, the folks that were dancing on top of the building and celebrating... The Israelis, the Mossad officers, yeah. A lot of people had questions about that. A lot of people had questions about why, was it insurance policy, I believe? You did a whole segment. That's right. You did a whole segment on this. Yeah, we did a documentary. 62:23 Yeah. 62:24 There's an insurance policy that was taken out right beforehand, which is pretty fortuitous, pretty prescient. Yeah. 62:32 They've brought up a whole bunch of things. And from my perspective, from my perspective, these are good questions that deserve answers. 62:41 So was the feeling that that building was by someone brought down? 62:45 Yeah. I mean, some have said that explicitly that I've spoken to. They said explicitly, yes, it sure looks like that thing was controlled explosion and, you know, fell in on itself. And these are, yeah, these are active CIA officers. 62:59 I mean, it's pretty obvious. Yeah. If you take, you know, if you filter out the propaganda, the screaming in your ears from Jake Tapper, like, shut up, conspiracy nut, and just ask, like, well, how did that happen? You can't get an answer because obviously it was brought down with explosives. It sure looks like... Of some kind. Right. So, but who did that and why? And by the way, that building collapsed in exactly the same way that the first two towers collapsed. Mm-hmm. Então, isso traz uma pergunta maior. Se que foi fake, o que mais é fake, se não? Eu não sei. Mas, enfim, todos esses questões, se você é uma pessoa normal, e seus colegas na CIA, provavelmente, também, esses normal CIA officers que você disse, 63:41 Who I love. They're great officers. No, of course. They work hard. Totally kidding. Barrel-chested freedom fighters. Yeah. 63:46 And I've known a lot of people like that in various federal agencies who are like good people. Not everyone's bad, right? It's true. However, if they're coming to the same conclusion, then it seems like 9-11 would be the number one thing you looked at in the dig. 64:01 I would have liked to have taken a look at it. I would have liked to have taken a look 64:05 It seems obvious to me that because unlike the MLK assassination, which is, I'd love to know more about it. Clearly it was a conspiracy, I think. 64:14 But like in the end, it didn't change the world in the way that 9-11 did. Maybe it's just too big to investigate. 64:22 Maybe. Maybe. 64:23 Have you ever heard anybody say, hey, we should just declassify the 9-11 documents? 64:28 Well, yeah. Some of the people in the dig said a couple times. But, I mean, we have to be direct. We were doing only what we were directed to do. What the EO told you to? EO told us to do. We're trying to be... 64:41 Trying to follow the law? 64:42 Well, yeah. Yeah, trying to follow the law, trying to make sure that we accomplish the mission that was put in front of us and get that done as quickly and as effectively as we could. And we found that, well, the deep state exists. I mean, I don't know what you want to call it. I love Mike Benz's description of it, the blob. I think it's the most accurate description. I agree with that. 65:04 Porque é amorphous. Yeah. 65:05 There's no meeting. 65:06 It's everywhere. And it just rolls in. It fills space. It fills the cracks. It pops up everywhere. It's miserable. 65:13 So the DIG was the director's... Initiatives group. Initiatives group. And that's the group within the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, ODNI, run until recently by Tulsi Gabbard, that was charged with... Producing these documents that Trump had called for in his executive order. Is that all true? Yeah. 65:35 So what were the. If you'll just jog my memory. The cases. The events that you were looking into. 65:43 Well. 65:45 A lot of them are listed in that Rand Paul subpoena. So if it's okay. 65:48 Oh, of course. So it was the JFK assassination. 65:52 Oh, the declassification effort. And they sort of lumped MLK, JFK. 65:56 Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy. In that category, there was election security issues. There was January 6th. 66:04 Um, there was, uh, COVID, Havana syndrome, UAPs, um, and a couple other issues. They tried to compartment out things. So like everybody wasn't working on the same things. So there's some things that I wasn't. 66:18 Those are all super interesting topics. So let's just go through them really quick. And I'm going to ask you, do you learn anything new about the JFK assassination? 66:24 Então, eu tenho que admitir, eu nunca realmente segui-lo. Então, eu estava só hoping que eu ia lançar tudo, e eu assumi que era um monte de pessoas que estavam indo para isso, e eles pediam os documentos e fazer as conclusões para mim. Então, eu não tenho nenhuma revelação que eu estava seguindo muito. 66:41 I was shocked to know that the CIA was running Oswald. 66:47 Yeah, that's true. 66:50 He defected, but that was all a scam. The Russians were very paranoid about Lee Oswald. He was a Marine Corps corporal, I think. And he shows up in Russia and they're like, you're a secret agent. But he actually was. So I didn't know that. MLK, anything come to mind? I wasn't following it, sorry. 67:10 January 6th. 67:13 I think your interview with Steve Baker covered quite a bit with that. And I think the only thing I want to add to that is Steve Baker's provision of information to the dig, I think that was sort of the first step to the dig being shut down. 67:32 And... 67:34 I've never seen a reaction quite like what I saw from the agency. 67:38 Can you tell us what Baker did, just so we have context for that? 67:40 Yeah, sure, sure, sure. So Steve Baker provided information based off gate analysis that indicated that a current CIA officer, former Capitol Police officer, may have been the person who placed the bombs that were outside the RNC and DNC on the evening of January 5th, early morning, whatever it was, and provided it to the DNI. Now, he provided it to the DNI because, and I didn't realize this until much later, As we're doing these investigations, sometimes you just need to bring in an expert. 68:17 And he had been following it for so long. Somebody, and I'm not sure which part of the team did it, they asked him, hey, would you like to help us with this? He deferred. He said, listen, I'll be glad to give you anything you need, but I don't actually formally want to be part of the investigatory work because he wants to be a journalist. He's actually a musician, which I find great. Yeah. E então, ele provided that information, e um... 68:44 A memo was typed up. The memo went to the PDD&I, the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Aaron Lucas, and it got scanned in and sent over to Michael Ellis. And that thing got shot. Number two at CIA. Number two at CIA. Shot all over the CIA, and next thing you know, people were losing their minds. 69:03 When I say people were losing... Because they were so excited to get to the bottom of this case. 69:07 Right, right, right. We finally figured it out. Um... 69:11 No, they were pretty upset. They're like, what are you doing? This is defamation. And, you know, people were pulled in front of other people. Defamation in what way? Well, you know, they're saying, listen, this person who was named in this investigation, you know, she's not, that individual is not the person who did it. And, you know, you could get yourself in a lot of trouble. You could get sued. How did they know that person didn't do it? They don't. They don't know that. They're a bunch of liars is what you're saying. That is definitely one way to say it, but yeah. 69:42 I mean, they don't know that. And it's weird to me because the CIA's job is to take in information. Exactly. And by law, if there's a chance that there is some illegal activity that occurred, we have to inform information. O que você está dizendo que a CIA não responde coolly ou analyticamente a essa informação de Steve Baker, as provided by ODNI. 70:03 Eles estão dizendo o que? 70:14 They decided they were going to investigate the dig. Okay? And I... Like, for what purpose? The people who provided the information. Yeah. Gave it to them. And, you know, to me, it's insanity. Were they upset about this information? Sure seemed like it, because you don't send somebody for... You don't call somebody up and say, we'd like you to show up at this facility for an interview... e que facilita é para polygraphs, por exemplo, que é basicamente um interrogation tool, e dizer, hey, listen, come on by. 70:45 I mean, there was a fellow sitting next to me, he asked me, you know, how do I deal with this? And I said, well, you tell them that you work for the DNI and that you would like them to send a full list of the questions they'd like to talk about, maybe send it to your lawyer, and you make sure you CC everybody in the DNI front office on that email chain because you want them involved in fixing this. 71:08 It was insane. 71:11 The reaction we got from them was a visceral reaction. 71:16 So if you, I mean, you were practicing tradecraft your career at CA, so you know that that kind of reaction suggests not good. 71:27 Not good. I immediately assume that there's wrongdoing. And like, right or wrong, that's what I assume. If you're going to react like that, well, hold on a second. O que você está protegendo? Por que você... Por que você... E todo mundo... Eu não sou um genio aqui. Você não precisa ser um COO para ter a mesma questão. Então... O que eu vou dizer sobre isso é... O CIA decidiu que foi o endo. E então, eles colocaram... Eles colocaram todos os obstáculos que puderam tentar evitar nós de conduzir a investigação. 72:04 E é simplesmente refusos, slow-rolling things. Even within the DNI's Office of General Counsel, there are things that we want to push through there to make sure that we're street legal. 72:18 Somehow, they managed to slow-roll even the stuff we were trying to get over to, for example, Senator Rand Paul's committee. There was questions and follow-ups that sat with that group for months. 72:29 Wait, but on the specific case of January 6th, so there are a couple things that jump out. One, that of all people in the world to be identified by a distinctive gait, apparently it's a product of a sports injury. Sounds like it. Baker says. 72:48 Mas quem era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, era o filme, 73:17 Eu acho que é possível fazer um trabalho lá. Não é fácil de ser contratado pela CIA. O que ela fazia lá? Ela trabalha em segurança. Eu não sei o específico da sua exato job. 73:29 É possível que ela provide segurança para a diretora? 73:32 I don't know. It is possible, I suppose. They pull people in if they're short, so they'll pull people in. There's a special group of people that handle security for the director, deputy director, the coup. Maybe not the coup. Well, the coups change names, but the director and deputy director over at the Coup, the chief operating officer. 73:53 The coup against Mossadegh? Oh, no. 73:55 I'm sorry. 73:56 No. Just kidding. 73:57 It was a little CIA joke. Yeah, yeah. You guys know coups. We know them. This is a different coup. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I suppose it's possible. 74:05 It doesn't matter whether she did or didn't. 74:08 What really matters to me was that reaction. And it's worse because... 74:14 There was a Homeland Security investigator that was given the information and asked to pursue this. What was his name? Osborne. Osborne. 74:26 And so he was found dead weeks later in his apartment, in his condo. 74:33 And that's worrisome. It's worrisome because there's questions about how he died. And, you know, people... 74:44 There's a lot of people who don't want to talk about Mr. Osborne and his death. 74:51 Why? 74:52 Well, I think what they don't want... Why don't they want to talk about it? They don't want to talk about... There's no obituary, I notice. Yeah. There's no... It's still an open question about how he died, okay? We don't know. Did he commit suicide? Did he... He was killed by a gunshot. He was killed by a gunshot. Okay? And it's worrisome because he was pushing to pursue this investigation. And people don't want to talk about it because they say, well, listen, we got to let the system work the investigation. 75:24 We got to let the system... Figa ou se não há algo a isso. Meu problema com isso é se há nefarious intento, que eu espero que Deus esteja só uma coisa que aconteceu com esse pobre homem. Ou se é suicídio, eu espero que sua família não está sofrendo. Tudo isso. Eu espero para ele. Eu espero para sua família. Mas se há nefarious action que ocorre com isso, isso não é algo que você quer hidden behind a wall de secreção. Porque isso não é safe para ninguém mais. 75:55 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 76:18 got so much out of it, but you seem to believe by what you're saying that the CIA would at least be capable of killing this guy. 76:25 Well, I don't know who did that. I'm not saying the CIA did it, but something happened. Something happened and he was killed. And you could make that supposition that, well, it might be the CIA. Could be... 76:38 Could be other people with interests. 76:40 And I also find it fascinating that within a very short period of that Steve Baker piece coming out, saying we found the woman who placed these pipe bombs, the Department of Justice, after... Well, I guess five years of not finding a suspect, arrested some autistic black kid and charged him with the crime. It's crazy. 77:02 I don't believe that for one minute. 77:04 That the autistic black kid did this? 77:05 No, I don't. Not for one minute. And the other issue, I don't know... Do you think the Department of Justice is capable of framing someone like that? 77:13 Apparently. I don't... 77:17 I can't speak to motives. That's so evil, though. If this is what happened, it's pure evil. And there's other data out there. People should go take a look at Kyle Serafin's podcast. He was on the surveillance team, surveilling Person of Interest 3. There's other data out there that seems to indicate that this is not the full story. I don't believe that that kid... This is just my opinion... But I don't believe that that kid is the one, the guy that got arrested, the autistic kid that, you know, has feet that are six sizes too big to be the same person. 77:52 Uh-uh. It doesn't add up. But I will say. 77:56 Is the NAACP involved in this? All the professional defenders of black people out there who were like out in force five years ago. I love black people. Okay. Now is the time for everyone who stood up five years ago during the George Floyd insanity and said, I love black people. What about this black guy? This autistic black kid. Who's defending him? Anybody? Nobody. Nobody, nobody. Oh, all the I Love Black people are absent on this? Apparently. Yeah, okay. Apparently, I mean... Not surprised. It's sickening to me. It is sickening. You know, I... I never said I love black people. I never treated black people like gods. They're people like you and me. 78:27 Yeah. But I'm offended by this. 78:28 Well, I'm offended partly because... Because he's a human being. If this poor kid, you know, he's... Sounds like he's got some spectrum issues. Yes. You know, I've got people very close to me with mental health issues. Yeah. And to think that, you know what, this is a throwaway person. This is a throwaway person. That's what they're saying. If this really is as bad as it looks to me, they're basically saying... It's not the first time. 78:53 When Mary Pinchon Meyer was murdered on the towpath right near my house, childhood home in Georgetown, Cord Meyer's widow, wife... 79:02 They grabbed some black guy and put him on trial for her murder when they knew, when CIA was perfectly aware that he didn't do it. And they allowed the D.C. police to arrest this guy and put him on trial. 79:13 Yeah. 79:14 Well, what I'd say about all of this... Sorry, it just makes me mad. It makes me mad, too. I mean... It's so mean. And it's... Every single one of these acts... 79:28 They're in our face. It's so obvious. And they're throwing it in our face. It's meant to demoralize us. And make us feel like there's nothing we can do against this giant blob that does whatever they want. 79:44 Run by John Radcliffe. 79:47 And so, you know, I... As far as The Dig is concerned, as far as Steve Baker's story is concerned, that was the death knell for The Dig. 79:57 But it's got to make you think, if CIA is this involved in it, clearly they were this involved in January 6th. 80:05 I mean, why else? If I'm John Ratcliffe, okay, and I find out that someone on our security team has been identified by gate recognition software as the person who planted the pipe bombs on J6, I would say at least we got to look at this. Yeah. I wouldn't say let's shut down the investigation that produces information. Right, right. 80:27 And if I were... 80:29 I'll take Kyle Serafin's surveillance team. If I were on a surveillance team that was surveilling all these people that were in the vicinity, as soon as that new information came out from Steve Baker, I'd be calling up my surveillance team and I'd be saying, hey boys, we've got some new information. Let's go over the old files and we're going to... I'm an intelligence officer. I'm not... Mas eu, como um intelligence officer, se eu estava fazendo algo overseas e tinha alguns shades de o que isso é, eu ia imediatamente chamar minha team de surveillance together e dizer, vamos ter no target again. 81:00 Vamos começar a ter um brass tacks de o que está acontecendo. Vamos lá, vamos lá, vamos lá, vamos lá, vamos lá, vamos lá. 81:09 None of that's happening. 81:10 I mean, this person who, like, I don't know anything. I mean, I was not involved in investigating this. I just talked to Steve Baker and you. That's it. So I'm not alleging anything. 81:19 But, I mean, Dan Bongino at FBI was defending this person and attacking Steve. That's correct. Yeah. Can you verify that? Wait, attacking Steve Baker? Yeah, Steve Baker. 81:31 Oh, yeah, yeah. 81:33 I'm going to help fund a libel suit against you and all this stuff, supposedly he said, but he was certainly attacking Steve Baker. What does Steve Baker do? He used gate recognition software, which the federal government uses, by the way. It's not a crackpot technology. No, no. It doesn't prove anything, but it moves you closer like anything else. 81:51 Facial recognition, right? Yeah. 81:53 I mean, it breaks things open so that you can start conducting more investigations. 81:57 Okay, so you're an expert in human behavior, of course, because you're recruiting spies. Yeah. Se isso fosse acontecendo em Pakistan, não em seu país, você seria, assim, esse agência deve ser envolvido. Sim. Sim. O evento em questão, J6. Sim. 82:10 Sim, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, eu, I'd run an intelligence operation. I've monitored elections in foreign countries as part of that process. 82:30 Here's another example. If I had seen the anomalies that had occurred during our election that caused January 6th in some foreign country, the State Department would be probably sending out a demarche. E você explica para quem não sabe, o que isso significa? Oh, isso significa que nós precisamos criticar essa cunha por sua cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha de cunha 83:08 Um... It's kind of weird if you take three steps back. I'm not alleging anything at all. I just happened to notice the pattern that this happens in 2020. It's clearly... 83:17 No one's proved that the election was stolen, so far as I can tell. But the evidence that this was, like, not how you run an election, this is how a fraudulent election is run. It's overwhelming. Mm-hmm. 83:28 E então Trump gets shot in Butler and then decides to hire Marco Rubio as Secretary of State, Steve Walz as National Security Advisor, and critically John Ratcliffe as Director of Central Intelligence. 83:40 And then he wins the election with the majority of the popular vote and you don't have any of these problems. 83:47 I mean, if this were happening in a foreign country, what would you say? I have some questions. I will say part of the reason President Trump won was because he managed to capture the Maha vote. And he should be probably a little more cognizant of what Maha wants. 84:04 He shouldn't be endorsing mRNA technology. 84:06 Yeah, stuff like that. But that's separate from your point. 84:09 It's just kind of weird. Like, if you wanted above all... ...to have a war with Iran, not just to get rid of their nuclear program, but to reset the world order. Right. Get the U.S. out of the Middle East and the U.S. dollar and the petrodollar. 84:23 And that was your plan, clearly. That's the plan that's happening. 84:27 And no American president would go along with that because that would, like, destroy your legacy and your nation. 84:32 Right. Especially for someone who campaigned on no... 84:36 Of course. And clearly didn't want to do it. But let's say that was your plan. 84:39 And that's a big plan. That's a history-changing plan. 84:42 Yeah. 84:43 You would, you know, you'd do whatever you could to make it clear to that guy, like, there's a carrot and a stick here. Like, maybe you get elected, maybe you don't get killed if you go along with it. 84:56 Yeah. 84:58 Has that ever occurred to you? 85:00 Yeah. I mean, if I'm being honest with myself, yes. 85:04 I don't know that that happened. Nobody has ever bothered to explain what did happen if that's not what happened. 85:10 Like, oh, it's just totally normal that we invaded Iran after, you know, six months after saying we ended the nuclear program to like restart again without trying to convince the public and then just do this thing that we know is going to wreck our country, which it now is. 85:22 Yeah. What I mostly, not mostly, what I very much dislike is the alternative voices that came together to form this coalition, because whatever MAGA is, whatever MAHA is, all these people came under a very big tent, and they offered their voices, their support for President Trump. 85:43 What a great coalition it was, too. 85:45 Yeah. It was awesome. It was awesome. You had these people came forward, and then... The alternative voices have been systematically removed from the pool of people that are supposed to be advising Is that true? I think so 86:01 Sorry, I'm just laughing. I was one of them. Yeah, no, that is definitely true. 86:05 And like Joe Kent, for example. Oh, the best. He's a wonderful human being. I agree. 86:10 I look at the reaction to him resigning the way he resigned. And I have friends who I deeply respect. I love them. And they're like, oh, you shouldn't have done it that way because it criticized President Trump. I'm like, you know, for many years... 86:26 Quando people resign from office, a lot of times they'd resign on principle. And they'd write a letter just like that. Joe Kent was not disrespectful to President Trump. At all. At all. And if you can't get through... a presidente, você não pode ter a mensagem acrópida e dizer, eu preciso ouvir você, eu preciso ouvir você ouvir. Às vezes, a gente pode ouvir a respeito da lei que diz, eu disagree com esse policy. Eu vou deixar por esse motivo. Isso aconteceu todo o tempo antes. 86:57 O que me importa é... 86:58 O que é a opção? Leaking para a mídia, subverter o presidente's programa. Os são claramente menos honorable responses. Completely. Se você não can't carry out a job consistent with your own values, não. Eu não sei, como é que é isso? Não é isso que nós pedimos para as crianças? 87:17 É isso que nós pedimos. E Joe Kent fez exatamente o que muitas outras pessoas têm feito em muitas outras administrências. Meu problema é a screeching e a gnashing de teeth que cameo de esse... People associated with this administration, you know, they treated him worse than if he was, like, some kind of leaker. Well, actually, they claimed he was. Well, they claimed he was a criminal. 87:43 A criminal. That he was under criminal investigation. His security clearance was unimpeded until the day he left. So we know that that's not... It's just not true. It's a lie. They admitted it was a lie. But they trashed the guy's reputation. They trashed his wife. 87:55 Yeah. I mean, just... Eu sei, ele é sacrifício para esse país. E ele fez uma honra coisa. Ele falou com respeito ao presidente. Ele não conseguiu fazer, então ele decidiu deixar. Eu estou vendo esses indicadores que há brilhantes de lá fora da White House, que você não pode falar sobre. Você não pode falar com eles. E, assim, eu gostaria de ser parte do inner circle, então eu gostaria de ver o que estava acontecendo. 88:26 Mas como alguém que era uma ou duas leiras abaixo do que, parece que as blast doors estavam indo para um monte de pessoas. E... 88:37 I don't know how we got on that, but I think it's important for the... Well, I mean, it's just because it's sad and the coalition that brought Trump back to the White House in 2024 was like a beautiful thing. It wasn't organized around a race or even a political party. It was organized around a kind of idealistic hope that the country could be better and that some measure of power would be returned to the citizens who own it. It's like, these are not radical ideas. They're foundational ideas. Well, now that I am... It wasn't a hate-based thing at all. E agora é totalmente blown-up, porque um pequeno grupo de true haters, o Genocide Defenders, todos foram, como, basicamente, convidados a destruir essa coalición. 89:14 E aí funcionou. E aí funcionou. E a verdadeira, agora que eu não sou um governo employee, eu posso falar sobre meus próprios políticos. Eu sou uma vida-longa conservadora. Eu voto para o Ross Perot. Eu sou um Ross Perot. Eu gave you Bill Clinton at um ponto. Eu sou uma vida-longa conservadora. 89:34 E eu fui para votar por Kennedy. Eu fui para votar por Kennedy. E eu fui para votar. Eu fui para votar. Eu fui para votar. Eu fui para votar. Eu fui para votar por Kennedy. 89:46 E, em minha opinião, ele fez um dos mais presidências que eu vi em minha vida. Ele escolhe o Americano por poder. Ele disse, listen, eu tenho uma oportunidade. Se eu trabalhar com essa administração, eu tenho uma oportunidade para fazer o mundo mais saudável. 90:08 um, it, it was the most noble thing I'd ever seen. I was really pissed off that he, uh, he pulled out. I really was going to go the distance and I'd never, if someone had asked young Jim, hey, someday, are you going to vote for, for a Democrat? Um, I would have been like, oh, that's, that's crazy talk. Uh, you know, I might vote for an occasional libertarian or Ross Perot, but probably not a Democrat. And I was going to go the distance, uh, with him. 90:34 That coalition that he brought in I don't think President Trump would be president if he had not brought that in. And so for me, if we're talking about the coalition that said no more war, make America healthy again, we're losing... 90:53 The promises are being broken. The promises are being broken. Mocked. Mocked. Openly mocked. And like, you know, I'll still go the distance with anybody who wants to protect religious rights, bodily autonomy, all those things. 91:12 Somebody needs to wake up this administration and say, hey, listen, if the person who owns the Maha agenda at the polls, they're probably going to get those, little bits of oats that are going to put them over the edge. It's too late. 91:29 Betrayal is hard to recover from. 91:32 Você fica em um argumento com sua esposa e você fica passando. Você fica em casa com a polvo e você não vai ver a mesma coisa porque ela não vai ver você. No. No. Não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, não, É muito muito. Você é desloyal, Joe Kent foi desloyal, realmente? Joe Kent's wife got killed in Syria because of the neocons. Yep. 92:03 And rather than whine about it, he kept going and tried to serve his nation and did. And he was right, by the way, on the merits. And then he calls Trump, tries to see Trump on his way out because he likes Trump, actually. He's a respectful guy. 92:17 And Trump trashes his wife? Yeah. Ele disse, ele ficou remarriado muito rápido. Muito? Porque ele foi under a sua administração que a sua primeira mulher foi morta? Porque você não tinha a bola para os Estados Unidos dos Estados Unidos, porque você era controlado por Israel. Então, para lutar Joe Kent sobre a sua primeira mulher, depois de você ver a sua primeira mulher, eu era assim, oh, oh. 92:39 Can't deal with this anymore. 92:40 Yeah. You know, there's been a lot of disappointment. I know that's the understatement of the year, but a lot of disappointment. Like, I have disappointment, like, to bring it back around to the conversation about the agency and everything else, I have a disappointment with the agency. I wanted reform. I wanted real reform. I'm okay with getting rid of some of the chaff. I'm okay with making some big changes, and it never happened. Never happened. In fact, this administration is... 93:09 Just letting it move on. I've left government service now. I co-founded an organization. If it's okay, I'm going to talk a little bit about that because I think it's important. I... 93:22 At some point, I'm going to go into the private sector. But the thing about being a government employee, if you're in military or forward-facing, you want to have a mission. You want to have something that you're like, no, no, no, I want to be part of something bigger. And that's the hardest part of leaving government service. And you realize that there's a lot of people in the private sector who are incredibly impressive, and you have to compete against them. So some of these government schlubs are afraid to leave. Yeah, of course. But... I co-founded an organization that sued the federal government over vaccine mandates. 93:56 We got together. We didn't know what we were doing. We built a car as we rolled it out of the garage. But we were successful. We got a nationwide injunction that shut down the vaccine mandate for all staff federal government employees throughout the entirety of the Biden administration. Done. Succeeded. We filed 17 class action EEOs. 94:17 Ah, you know, towards the end of my time at the dig, the last year in the dig, turns out that the CIA decided that every single person who is noncompliant with those vaccine mandates, yeah, they weren't, you know, just insubordinate. They were spies. So they had all of them investigated by the Counterintelligence Mission Center's Counterespionage Department. Not really. Oh, really? All of them said, yep, we got a check. 94:53 So I personally filed an Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties complaint. And I blind CC'd every single unvaccinated officer in the CIA. 95:04 And then when nothing happened after 40 days, I sent it up to the Intelligence Community Inspector General. I said, you need to investigate this. My problem is they're purposely waiting longer than a 45-day period because as soon as I CC'd all these unvaccinated officers, as soon as I CC'd them, they have a 45-day window to file an EEO complaint. I know a lot about the complaint process now. Never used to. Never made a complaint until COVID. 95:31 And I wanted to give them a chance, if they were upset about it, to actually file those complaints. A bunch of people filed the EEO complaints. But all we really wanted was... And again, this is under Director Radcliffe. All we wanted to do was to expunge the records. See, when you have a counter-espionage... Wait, John Radcliffe okayed counter-espionage investigations? No, no, no. The investigation occurred in 2021. Right. Okay. It was discovered. So after it was discovered, we said, hey, listen... 95:58 New administration. This is an easy fix. Here's what we want. Just expunge the records. Just get that off your permanent security file. 96:07 Because that's... You were investigated as a foreign spy because you didn't want to take the death shot? 96:10 Yeah, because you didn't want to take the death shot. And that was a simple request. Hey, please, just... 96:16 Did Ratcliffe do it? 96:18 No. So now we have to sue. And so, you know, I found pro bono legal support. 96:22 Why is Ratcliffe so vested in slander against people who didn't take the vac? 96:28 I have no idea. We, and I don't know, maybe he's incompetent too. 96:33 He should have, his staff were aware. I made sure that both deputy director and the director's staff were aware that this was occurring. I wanted them to just fix it. And they didn't. So, we're going to sue them. So, I got out of government service, but I'm still working the Feds for Freedom. Feds for Freedom is suing the CIA over this. And we are still actually litigating class action EOs. And this is a half decade later. So, we've got an FBI class action EO. 97:04 We've got a couple others. DOD, NASA... 97:09 We're still litigating this stuff a half decade later, which is absolutely idiotic. It's this administration. They said flat out, we shouldn't have to have... Well, it's just an attack on Christians. That's what it was. 97:21 Here's a shot with aborted baby parts in it. Can you take it? The people who said they can't, they get investigated as spies. Get all the Christians out. 97:28 Yeah, so... 97:30 At some point, I'm going to go find a normal job, but for right now, I'm going to... Let me ask you one final question, one final category of questions. 97:37 So, back to January 6th. Sure. Based on everything you've said without any other evidence, I would find it very likely that the CIA was involved in January 6th. 97:48 Just by their reaction to it. Or is aware that DOJ isn't covering for DOJ or something. 97:52 The government is clearly... Based on their reaction, it's actually the worst possible conclusion. If I'm just going off reaction, I have no data. I can't prove anything. But it means that the Capitol Police, the FBI, and CIA were all in bed. 98:07 Yeah. 98:08 And they perpetrated a hoax of such... Colossal proportion. You know, January 6th, you had people rotting in these jails. Oh, I know. For a very long time. 98:20 If CIA was involved in that, maybe that four wins thing... 98:25 Maybe that's where we should be going. Certainly a church committee 2.0. 98:30 Just shut it down at that point. Or shut it down. Yeah. But that raises the question, I mean, like the firewall always was involvement in domestic politics. Yes, we did overthrow Mossadegh. Yes, we did this, that, and the other thing abroad, but it was in the service of American foreign policy goals, and so it's okay. Mas o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que o que 99:15 It starts looking like something's happening, you know. 99:23 Yeah, they're pretty obviously involved in the Monica Lewinsky thing. Not that I'm pro-Clinton, never have been. Yeah. But do you think that's fair to say? 99:29 I think it is, yeah. 99:31 Yeah. 99:31 So that's like pretty shocking that they would be involved in our politics, don't you think? 99:38 It is shocking. And like I said, I used to be... 99:43 A variety of things that I entertain as possibilities are much, much wider than they used to be. You can't read an email that says this is our story and we're sticking to it. And not, you can't go back. You can't go back to that. So, yeah, it's disturbing. We're not getting reform. And I have a feeling we've got more pain ahead for us if we don't make some changes. 100:16 I agree with that. Thanks so much for taking all this time, Jim, to talk to us. 100:20 My pleasure. Congrats. You've been at a CA less than a month and you're already doing a good work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.